Magnum

Mar 11 2010, 12:14 PM

Luis Cruz

Mar 7 2010, 02:10 PM

I know it wouldn't happen, i'm just saying imagine what that could cause.

I think he can beat certain people like guys that rely on their hands mostly with limited skills. Like a Houston or Kimbo for example, Toney mops both of them.

this is something you and i have disagreed about since the hughes/hopkins debate 5 years ago.

you think boxers stand a chance against mixed martial artists in a street fight....and i do not. but i concede that street fights are an unpredictable mess so there's a chance that anything's possible.

if you're telling me that they stand a chance in against a mixed martial artist in the octagon...then i think you're nuts. even kimbo and houston would wreck him. i feel like the UFC has to give him a stefan struve or some other green kid if there's any chance for him to win in his debut. maybe they can call ken shamrock for this one. it could be billed as boxer vs diver

Luis Cruz

Mar 11 2010, 12:20 PM

Now come on James, you're getting crazy saying Houston and Kimbo wreck him. I wouldn't give him a shot against anyone with any ground skills but neither of those guys are worth shit on the ground and like to be the KO guys especially Kimbo, i think he would have too much pride to take it down but he could, if he didn't he's done i don't care what anyone says.

Houston has a big fat 0 chance. He has NO ground game AT ALL, he's like a turtle. He'd circle and run again and eventually get put to sleep he wouldn't stand the biggest chance in hell in that fight. I'd give Kimbo a shot IF he took it down for some GnP but that's it. Either stands with Toney and it's a no contest. Anyone who argues that has just thrown any logic out the window and has tunnel vision for MMA.

Magnum

Mar 11 2010, 01:49 PM

Luis Cruz

Mar 11 2010, 12:20 PM

Now come on James, you're getting crazy saying Houston and Kimbo wreck him. I wouldn't give him a shot against anyone with any ground skills but neither of those guys are worth shit on the ground and like to be the KO guys especially Kimbo, i think he would have too much pride to take it down but he could, if he didn't he's done i don't care what anyone says.

Houston has a big fat 0 chance. He has NO ground game AT ALL, he's like a turtle. He'd circle and run again and eventually get put to sleep he wouldn't stand the biggest chance in hell in that fight. I'd give Kimbo a shot IF he took it down for some GnP but that's it. Either stands with Toney and it's a no contest. Anyone who argues that has just thrown any logic out the window and has tunnel vision for MMA.

it will take way less than zen ground skills to beat toney. his entire fighting career he's only had to know 1 thing...punching...and of course avoiding punches.

toney will have zero answer for what to do when he gets muscled against the octagon (with no ref to separate it). not to mention, he'll have no answer for elbows, knees, or kicks that will almost certainly be sent his way by either kimbo or houston. toney's punching is not going to matter unless his opponent is actually dumb enough to stand and engage in a hand to hand exchange like tim sylvia did with ray mercer. not to mention, at the time, timmay was on the ricco rodriguez high carb diet...with hot dog water as an energy drink. that 300+ lb fool couldn't have avoided a slow moving bus at the time...let alone a right cross.

my biggest reason for doubting toney's chances is that the UFC hw pool is just way too deep right now. even the least well rounded (cough Kimbo) are just miles beyond him. and at 41, his 1 trick can't carry him too far into his multi-fight deal against the best collaboration of HWs in the world. he'll only win against another circus freak.

i go back to my last idea, in my last post...boxer vs diver. make it happen dana!

Magnum

Mar 11 2010, 02:44 PM

since we're talking ray mercer, did anyone forget that kimbo destroyed him too? and that was at kimbo's mma debut almost 3 years ago. i doubt very much that he would encounter issues with another boxer in his own mma debut.

you're right that i consider mma a superior fighting art. not just in entertainment value but in combat value.

but the basis of my argument is that no boxer is good enough to beat a mixed martial artist at their own game in their own fighting ground. least of a all a 41 year old who's well past their prime. toney's set in his ways whether he admits it or not...not just mentally, but neurologically. his body and mind are simply not trainable like they would have been 10-15 years ago.

like it or not, kimbo and houston are miles beyond toney when you put them in the octagon. and why would houston avoid the clinch with toney, lol??? he did that with kimbo because he had a plan to let kimbo tire himself by striking while chasing him (which obviously was a bad plan that didn't work). if houston swarms in on him and lands heavy heat, it will be a repeat of he did to sakara and jardine.

i don't care about how "solid" toney's chin is when he's getting tagged by boxing gloves. he'll go to sleep just like any other person if he absorbs a chin shot with lightweight mma gloves. and if he all he has in his arsenal is striking, then it will be a short night.

Magnum

Mar 11 2010, 06:35 PM

Our most fundamental disagreement begins at which sport puts out better fighters. I know a solid boxer can whoop most people out there....I just believe that a solid MMA practitioner could whoop most boxers. You think it's a close fight, and I don't...that's why we don't see eye to eye.

I'm not favoring MMA fighters when it comes to the light gloves. I'm simply saying that just like anyone else, Toney can be knocked out more easily with lighter MMA style gloves than with boxing gloves. For years we all thought guys like Nogueira, Hunt, and Fujita were impossible to KO. If the right shot gets through, anyone will go to sleep. No one is bullet proof. Not even Lights Out Toney.

So it's ok to be pro Ray Mercer when it pertains to the Tim Sylvia fight...but when I bring up his Kimbo fight from 3 years ago, he's old and washed up? Don't be a spinmeister. Ray's an old bum nowadays, of course, but he's proof that boxers are ill equipped for success in MMA...much the same way MMA fighters would be ill equipped for against most any relevant boxer of today. I don't care if you bring over Mayweather, Pacqiau, Roy Jones, or Klitschko. The result will be the same no matter what. They need to train in MMA...and not after 40 years of age either.


Anyway, I hope Toney gets Kimbo or Houston in his debut. That way we can have this conversation again, after the fact.